Podcast: Sara Jorgensen on Why Universal Design is for Everyone

The Women in Residential Construction Conference took place at the end of September, but we’re continuing to share the perspectives and insights of the women who spoke during the three-day event.

One of those speakers, Sara Jorgensen, senior designer at Los Altos, Calif.-based remodeling firm Harrell Design + Build shared her thoughts on universal design and why builders should be advising clients of all ages and abilities to build their homes with these principles in mind

Listen to the full episode:

Welcome back to Women at WIRC, where our editors from sister media brands—Pro Builder, Pro Remodeler, and Custom Builder—sit down with standout women across home building, remodeling, and design. We share their stories and business insights, and explore how women are reshaping the residential building industry.

Catherine Sweeney:  Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Women at WIRC. As many of you may know, the 2025 Women in Residential Construction Conference wrapped back in September, and since then we've been doing our part to share with you what we learned during our time there. As part of that, we're playing full speaker sessions here on the podcast once a month.

One of the speakers at this year's work event was Sara Jorgensen, who's the senior designer at Harrell Design + Build. During the conference, Sara spoke about using universal design to create homes that are accessible to all people, no matter their age or their ability, and so today we're excited to dive into her session and let you hear her insights firsthand.

Sara Jorgensen: Hello. I am not a professional speaker, like the ones before that move around and are very eloquent. I have notes, you know, old school notes, so bear with me. So, like she said, I am the design team manager at Harrell Design + Build. I've been there 20 years this year. And I love what I do.

So my goal today with universal design is to just kind of shift your mindset on what it is, because everybody kind of thinks it's all about accessibility. And it is, but it's more about everybody having a space. Okay, so this is my team at Harrell Design + Build. Some of you may know our founder, Iris Harrell.

She founded a women's construction business, and this was our 40th year this year. And that's my 54-member team [points to screen]. We like to have a lot of fun. We just celebrated our 40th year in little logoed shirts. [00:02:00] Thought I'd wear it. It's kind of over the top, but it's fun. When she first started ... you know, Lisa was talking about getting appreciation [referencing earlier speaker] ...I remember Iris coming up to me and giving me a pat on the back, and I just loved it. I felt so appreciated and, oh my gosh, this is the company I want. That goes a long way. Her tagline when she started was about doing remodels for elderly women who didn't trust "weird" men in their home.

And so she created job site policies, no swearing, no radios, and just really did things very differently. And it's really helped us as a company going forward.

Okay, so what is universal design? I'm gonna tell you a little bit about what it is, but also what it is not, and I'm gonna give you some very specific whole-house applications that we've done.

So, we are a remodeling company. [00:03:00] We don't build new construction. But God, if I could, these are some things that I would want all of you to just know that you could do, and it would save so much time and money for all the people that wanna think about this when they think they need to think about it, which is the sooner the better.

So some kitchen and bathroom specific ideas. So the first myth is universal design is just for people with disability disabilities or the elderly. No. No, it is not. It is actually for all ages and abilities, from toddlers all the way up to when my 104 year old grandmother wants to come visit. [That can be] very eye-opening. [You realize] everything around your house that either does work or does not work very quickly.

The other thing I hear often is that universal design is so much more expensive. No, it's actually not. If you proactively think through, you can save time, you can save money, and [00:04:00] really be thinking about the future of not just you, [but also] the whole family in the house over time.

There are many things you can do with framing and blocking, whether it's a curbless shower or, different materials and storage. 

[Another myth is that] universal design is ugly. No, no, it is not. 

Early on, when they talked about universal design, it was all about accessibility ... the ADA would always show a wheelchair in the photo to show universal design [is about being] barrier free.

And, it's not so much [anymore]. We've seen a lot of things coming from hotels and hospitality to really show how beautiful some of these aspects can be. I'll show examples.

[Another myth is that] Universal design requires more space. Guess what? No, no, it does not. It actually does not. There are some proactive things that you can do [00:05:00] with just the space that you have, and especially with you new construction builders, there's some very easy things you can do.

All the Pinterest and other boards that are out there want these luxurious open spaces. Well, wheelchairs, and accessibility, need a good turning radius. And we can get into some of those.

And this is my personal favorite [myth]. What does it say? "We don't need to think about that now. We'll just worry about that later." I hate to say it, but we're getting older, every single one of us. And at the end of this meeting, we're gonna be 30 minutes older too. And oh, it's hard to accept and it's hard to think about, but I've had many clients I [say], 'I don't need that wheelchair accessible ADA stuff.'

I had a client when I first started, 20 years ago, and they had this home that you stepped up four steps, went straight down four steps, up four steps, [00:06:00]. And I was really [encouraging them], let's start thinking about [aging] in place, what are some things we wanna think about? [The client responded, saying,] 'We don't need to think about that.'

And I said, no, [because] you could get injured, something could happen.

Well guess who remodeled their home 15 years later when they could no longer be in the [home]? They had to move and I had to do their next home, because they didn't want to take the advice at that time. But the biggest [objection] is, 'we don't need to worry about that.'

If you're talking to anybody who has a very active lifestyle, this is where this comes into play. And I'll give a very real example. I've been working out. I've been trying to, get my body back in shape and I got a little cocky. I went with my son, he's 11, and I decided to race him on this adventure and I beat him.

I got up on the raft and then I got really cocky and tried to lift him over my head. Well, I tweaked my knee, went to the doctor. But, Lord Almighty, it took five weeks [to heal]. I [00:07:00] had a brace, and every single step, every single threshold ... taking a shower, just cooking dinner ...everything took so much longer.

Think about that, anything could happen at any moment in time. It's not just about being old and needing a wheelchair or a walker. It's a way of life. This is just the basic [idea behind] universal design. It is really about the whole family throughout the lifespan.

[So, you're] thinking through age, size and abilities, from when I have young children and I'm thinking about bringing them into the home; also grandmothers, parents. We'll talk a little bit about multi-generational living too. 

Why should you care about universal design? Well, a lot of people are marketing these luxurious designs and really creating this pivot point about flexibility and how wonderful multi-generational living is, and the forever home, and having this one single home that you [00:08:00] can have throughout your whole lifespan. 

Especially in California, our property taxes are crazy. When they buy a home, they're looking for the right area, the right neighborhood, and then being able to think through the home as they develop as a family, and also if family members need to come back.

Thinking through some whole-house universal design aspects. When you start at the front door, you start at the driveway, because everybody [thinks they] don't need to worry about [having] zero step thresholds. But, the idea is that if you even had a rolling suitcase from your car and you had to roll it up your front door, how many steps is it going to take? Because if something happens, every single step is going to be just very painful.

When we did this remodel,[pointing to screen], we actually regraded and did a nice little front pathway. We dropped the threshold of the front door. There's nothing more than a half an inch, from the driveway all the way up. We did a 2% slope.

Another thing to think [00:09:00] about, which, especially in a lot of the bigger homes, and especially new construction [where] you have a lot of flexibility, is all those large accordion doors in California. We love the outdoors and we love the indoor-outdoor spaces. Well, it's that threshold that you get between indoor space and the outdoor space, and there's usually about six or seven thresholds you can specify.

They have one called the ADA threshold, check out that section cut [referencing screen], because the waterproofing is not good sometimes. So, don't do it or really think it through and get those details integrated. They actually have some that you can put the flooring in between, so it just seamlessly blends and is not a tripping hazard for anybody.

Elevators. This may sound crazy. Why would I want an elevator in my home? I've done four and unfortunately one of them was an addition. Because I'm a remodeler, right? I'm trying to fit them in a space that already exists, which is rather hard to get [into because of] the [00:10:00] mechanicals. So my recommendation is to try to see, especially in a new home, if you can carve out a six-foot-by-six-foot square that can stack up and down. 

Make sure you've consulted with an elevator company. But you then have this flexible way to market the house as a very flexible, future [focused property]. And it would save a lot of money and time.

Lighting. [In] universal design, there's a lot of aspects [to lighting], but layer your lighting. You have your ambient, and your task lighting. As you age in your forties, your near term vision decreases. And then, as you get older, it changes. The low light gets a lot more difficult to see.

And so even just the contrast of materials, your countertop materials to your flooring materials [is important]. [Without contrast, you might attempt to] put a coffee cup down, and you might miss it.

So these are just very simple [00:11:00] things, even though you don't have to market it as universal; it is thinking about clearances. A great guideline is doorways throughout the house, usually we say 36 inches is a good width. 

Thinking about the hallways as you design, front loading machines, things that are easy to bend down and to use, very flexible. 

In the kitchen, we usually say about 42-inch wide walkways, 48 inches is preferred. Just giving a lot of space for all people to move around. 

Smart homes. This is one aspect that, in the 20 years I've been doing this, it has changed a lot. And there are little things you can do, and big things, but where they come together, there are these really smart ways that you can monitor the home, energy, savings, all sorts of things.

My grandfather, he has Alexa and he loves it, man. She is his best friend and he talks to [00:12:00] her about the weather. He knows the sports, he knows things that I don't know, because he knows how to get her to do what he needs. 

But there are so many things [a smart home can now do because it is] learning how you live now, and later; it's quite great and has come a long way.

Multi-generational living. Do you guys do ADUs? Accessory dwelling units in California, they are [very popular] because we have very small lots. You can actually get better setbacks. You can build bigger and better things. And it creates this great [flexible] way [to live,] whether I'm a young family and I want to rent that out for extra income, or if I ever decide to leave my house to the family, I can move back there. My kids can move back there as they get older; it's a great flexible way to use your property to the best ability, especially in California. 

Countertops at different varied heights. [These are] not just for wheelchair accessibility, but [00:13:00] also for baking and functionality from an interior standpoint.

So when we are so limited on square footage, we have to get really creative in how we use the space. And so I do a lot of Murphy beds.

I [ask], ‘how often do you entertain in your dining room?’ [and the common reply is] ‘Oh, once a year.’ All right, well, let's talk about that. Maybe, instead of doing an addition, we should look at reconfiguring, thinking through how you can use that space in double ways.

And so one of these [rooms] is a yoga room, which makes it look really big with the mirror. Then it has the Murphy bed, and the other one is just an office.

Okay, so let's share some very specific kitchen ideas. On the left, this is one of my favorite hideaway solutions. It fits in an inch-and-a-half filler, and it's a little ladder that pulls out, and it flips both ways. [00:14:00] I've used it for my kids when they need to wash their hands. I've used it for myself when I need to reach the top. It is fantastic. And so it allows any age to be able to use any aspect of the kitchen, [with] convenient placement. You can use it in many, many ways. 

There [are] many [options], but they have pull-down accessible options. There's one for spices, there's ones for plates, and all sorts of really creative uses. Pantry storage, being able to not have to dig into the back of your pantry and try to find where all those cans are; you're getting some nice real creative storage, maximizing the doors. There's so many options out there. Reaching in the back is such a pain.

Touchless faucets. I'm [00:15:00] sure everybody has seen them, especially on the commercial side, but when you have very dirty hands and you're trying to wash, it's a great universal design aspect. It's one of those, [clients] like it [but] they're not sure about the cost, and then they put it in that and, just like heated floors, [it becomes] their favorite thing.

Microwave drawers. Ah, there's nothing better than a microwave drawer where you push the button and it comes out and you can stir and look down at what you're using. [It's] below your eyesight so you actually don't have to look at the microwave drawer.

And from a universal aspect, it's just easy. My kids can use it. My kids heat up their own food. I also did refrigerator drawers. They get everything they need. They have their step stool. I mean, I haven't tracked all of our morning steps, but maybe I should, because I got that down. That kitchen is super efficient. 

Multiple work zones is another thing. We just look at the path of travel from the interior aspect, that work triangle of your refrigerator to your sink, to your stove, and just try to create a station for every single user. And, no matter what their ability is, to have it be very functional.

I know I'm kind of blazing over some of these things, I'm happy to talk more to anybody.  

Induction cooktops are ...are they outlawing gas around here, too? Now, from an accessibility standpoint, there's no open flame or gas emissions [with induction cooktops] and there's great automatic shutoffs. It heats with magnets. You do have to replace all your pots and pans, but it reduces the risk of burns. And [it's] a great, easy to clean option. 

All right, bathrooms. My CEO, and [00:17:00] the founder before, said, 'If it's a kitchen that doesn't work for your lifestyle, you hire a cook. But if it's the bathroom that doesn't work, you either remodel or you move.' 

I have all the stories. Another time, we'll have drinks later. 

Vanities, we've done some very simple options and very, custom options. On the left side is a roll-under vanity and it actually has a really cool little switch and it moves the vanity up and down.

It's motorized and it has a flexible plumbing pipe. Our CEO did her forever home, wanting to be able to have that for all users. And it was really fun, fun to touch, fun to see people use.

There are also many prefab options; you can actually get a nice roll-under vanity. And some of them are floating and they look really modern, not totally universal at first.  [00:18:00] 

Alright, wall hung toilets. As you can see, they're so spacious and some people go, 'Ooh, I don't like them.' I had a client [who said,] 'I don't want one of those, the water's gonna leak behind the wall.'

And I said, well, it's like the gas tank in your car. How often have you had a gas leak in your car? Because it's true. The [pipes are] there, you can get to them. It's all accessible through the cover plate. It's funny, the things you hear in remodeling.

The thing that's really great about a wall-hung toilet is [that] you can pick that nice custom height that you want for the toilet. When we talk about luxury and customization, to be able to pick the exact height you want, the [wall-hung] toilet is also a nice thing to have. 

Now grab bars, they have come a long way. When people used to talk about grab bars, they were [technical difficulties with the screen]. 

They used to all be chrome. They used to be ugly. [00:19:00] They had the round little cover plate. The manufacturers have actually pivoted to understand that designers don't like chrome, and ugly things.

There's a really cool brand called Invisia, and there's many others, but they've come out with some really cool [grab bars with] curves and very flexible, fun designs. And the kicker is they actually come in other finishes now. If you really want that satin brass, you can get it and it will match, and it will be beautiful.

There are so many diagrams that I could show about universal design, but [technical difficulties with the screen]. I think you can get the presentation later. 

We actually started doing ...because people are like, ‘I don't need grab bars. I don't need 'em now' ... we started doing plan sets, and we would dash in a dash line [00:20:00] to show where the [future] grab bars and the blocking would go, because they're all in denial [thinking] they're not gonna ever need them. 

We just put [in] the blocking, and we do an extra six or 12 inches at every single one of those areas. Guess what? When, God forbid, something happens, it's there. It's ready. It's super accessible. It's great. 

One thing I also wanted to [explain is] the difference between a safety bar and a grab bar. The safety bar, when you're doing searches and you're trying to spec, they're very different. Safety bar is more for stability and fall preventive measures. And it helps with balance. It is not a grab bar. A grab bar is designed to actually [support] the full user's weight; it has much stricter guidelines, the diameter, all sorts of things.

I recommend blocking, blocking wherever you can.

Toilets and showers, mostly multiple light surfaces. I went past it [referencing the screen], but you saw it. Great for makeup, you really want to think through [00:21:00] the way that you can get different layers of lighting, different controls. In California, they make us do all sorts of different, flexible lighting, but there's some that are actually very great.

And also, if you think through as you age ...I know myself, I used to be able to see things really far away and now I think I need everything much closer ... having one of those flexible mirrors or a medicine cabinet that has multiple layers of lighting. Fantastic. 

Zero threshold showers, AKA curbless showers. This is one thing that you see a lot in the hotels and they start marketing [them as] luxurious suites.

It's a curbless shower. It looks more open and airy and beautiful, actually. And the idea that you can actually use it for accessibility is a bonus for me. If you cannot do a curbless shower, [if] you're remodeling and you have the joists going in the wrong direction (that's really a bummer when that happens), there are different [00:22:00] options with floating and other things. But also think through a low curb. Even a two-inch curb is going to be much better for everybody to be able to have better use of that bathroom. 

Foldable seats. They've also come a long ways design-wise, and they used to all be very chrome and gross and they would just be in a fixed position. Now they actually fold up. There's teak, there's many finishes. They're very sleek. I would look into them if you haven't. 

Built-in seats. My only advice is if you do a built-in seat, and you're thinking about someone aging in place in the home, [is to] think of, when that person is seated, if they came from a wheelchair, where those shower controls are.

I don't know if any of you have taken a shower here [at the hotel]. [The] shower controls are underneath, and you gotta walk into the glass; it's killing me slowly. Think through, if you can, where the plumbing needs to be in the wall so you know you're not hit with the cold water while you're [00:23:00] getting in.

Key takeaways. Alright, I just want you to think about [the idea] that there are so many universal design aspects that can be seen as very luxurious, whether you call them 'universal design' with your clients, or you just talk about practical design thinking [for everyone in the household, from] toddlers to the grandparents, to the parents.

Everybody wants to come visit. If you don't want to put it on [the client] because they are obviously not aging, then it’s [convincing them by saying] grandma's going to come, or mom's going to come, or the kids are doing this pivot/ [That is a good way to help them]  think [about] who is going to use the house. Unless they're a hermit and they don't want people over.

But, other than that, it will totally work. Just think about it, it's much easier and flexible for all users. And honestly, you could really market this in many different aspects. And this indoor-outdoor space, zero thresholds ... it's clean, it's simple. 

That's all I have. Sara, non-professional speaker.

Thanks for listening to Women at WIRC. This podcast is a spinoff of our annual Women in Residential Construction Conference, which we’ve hosted since 2016. You can learn more about the conference and see when we’ll be in your area by visiting womensconstructionconference.com. Women at Work is a production of Endeavor Business Media, a division of Endeavor B2B. Until next time, keep up the good work.

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